First Exposure to the Outdoors
Well, my first experience honestly was a boy scout trips years ago and I barely remember it. But my real major introduction to the outdoors is probably climbing with a buddy of mine a few years ago in the Wichita wildlife refuge, which is an area about three hours I want to say northwest of here in Lawton, Oklahoma. It’s like a world renowned spot or at least it should be a world renowned spot as far as I’m concerned. but I hiked out to this area called Elk slabs and Sharon’s garden and that was my real experience as far as introduction into rock climbing, camping, like the whole experience of the thing. It quite a few years ago, over 10 years ago. But it was awesome. I did my first route out there called great expectations. It was a long route, about 100 feet tall. It was 5.5 and at the time it was like completely wicked. I was blown away. I was losing my mind. I was like, this is what rock climbing is about. I’m in.
Things we talked about
Black Velvet Canyon, Las Vegas
The biggest thing is first and foremost get a low level job like working in REI or being an assistant guide. I’m a rare bird, the harder I work at my guiding company the more I am inspired to rock climb and for most people it’s like working at a restaurant and the more you work at a restaurant and the more you don’t like the food. You just don’t want to do it.
So I find that some people really get burned out and I’ve watched really great climbers, enthusiastic people get into the business and get burned out because they just went hard right in the beginning. So my best advice is try it out. Whatever you’re deciding, try it all out. Even the things that you like. I would never be interested in working as a Rep but if you are, just try it, try it for a little bit. If it doesn’t work out for you, move on, but that’s how you’ll find what you love. And then you will start finding people and things that will set you in motion to pursue your dream or pursue whatever avenue you’re going for. So that would be my best advice, take your time it’s not a race.
Other Outdoor Activities
Sitting around the Camp Fire
Kettleball Simple and Sinister by Pavel Tsatsouline
With Winning in Mind by Lanny Bassham
The Sweet Spot by Christine Carter
Best Gear Purchase under $100
Connect with Mario
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Mario Stanley- Mario tells us how he got into climbing, the programs offered at HighPoint and he drops a couple great books on us.
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Welcome to the show, Mario.
Rick, thanks for having me.
It’s good to have you on. How is it going?
I taught my 5:00 AM bootcamp class and having kids showing up for summer camp. It has been good so far.
What’s the 5:00 AM bootcamp? Is that a workout class?
At Summit Climbing Gym, the gym I work at during the day, we have a class called Climb Fit. We have a 5:30 AM to 7:00 AM climbing class. I call it bootcamp because that’s what most people associate early morning classes with. It’s a Strength and Conditioning class that’s designed to get you better at climbing and mainly help you reach your general fitness goals. Generally, it’s a launching pad to whatever else you want to do, whether it’s climbing or running.
You guys are down in Texas, right?
Yes, in Dallas, Texas. We have a gym in Fort Worth, Dallas and Denton. It’s the whole metroplex. We’re pretty much are everywhere.
What was your first experience in the outdoors as a kid? How did you get into climbing outdoors?
My first experience was a Boy Scout trip that I barely remember and it wasn’t even that great. My real major introduction to the outdoors is probably climbing with a buddy of mine in the Wichita Wildlife Refuge, which is an area three hours Northwest of here in Lawton, Oklahoma. It’s a world-renowned spot, or at least it should be as far as I’m concerned. We hiked out to this area called Elk Slabs and Charon’s Garden.
Not having all of your mentors pull from the same industry is actually a golden ticket to your personal growth.
That was my real experience as far as an introduction into rock climbing, camping and the whole experience with the thing. It was awesome. I did my first travel lead out there that was called Great Expectations. It was a long route and about 100 feet tall. It was 5.5. At the time, then, it was completely wicked. I was blown away. I was losing my mind. I was like, “If this is what rock climbing is about, I’m in.”
Did you do any sports as a kid? You’re in the Boy Scouts, so that gets you a little bit of exposure to camping.
I’ve always been an athletic kid. My first love was track and field. I ran the open 8, open 4 and 300-meter hurdles. The 300-meter hurdles was my favorite event. That was the first thing I did. That probably set the groundwork for me to enjoy a little bit of suffering because anybody who has done competitive track and field, it’s fun, but it’s Type 2 fun. You’re hurting afterward and you enjoy it, but in the midst of it, you’re like, “Wow.”
It’s a short sufferfest if you run short distances.
As I’ve gotten older, I realized I make my sufferfest longer and moving into bigger routes.
Did you have a traditional outdoor job?
My first outdoor job was REI. I worked there at the store here in Dallas. It used to be off of Highway 635 and they moved down to Route 12. That was my real first outdoor job. I would call it an outdoorsy store or some sort and I turned into a total gearhead. I could tell you everything about a pack. I could tell you what the kilonewtons were per cam. I dove in. Now I know it, but I care more about using the equipment than knowing what every bells and whistles about it.
That introduced me to the world of the outdoor industry as a whole, realizing that there was an actual massive industry behind this and then also giving me access to people. A lot of customers that came in, I made friends with over the years. I climbed and hiked with some of them outside. That’s my main introduction. That was the next major springboard that catapulted me into wanting to have a career outside.
You got interested in climbing with your buddy. Did you guys climb in other areas? Did you guys go on big trips to Yosemite or Jackson Hole, Wyoming? Did you mostly climb in the local area?
I’ve definitely climbed around. I’ve always had this thing where I’m a firm believer in having multiple climbing partners and not just one. My buddy I climbed with back then was named Rob. My climbing partner I climb with mostly is Will Brock, who helped me start HighPoint Expeditions. I have multiple friends that I climb with. I’m a big fan of that because not everybody’s schedules are lined up. I care more about adventuring than I do just adventuring with one person.
Life is a mixed bag. Having multiple experiences with multiple people usually equals a great experience or you have multiple people to climb with, so I never have to crash in the tent if I don’t have to. If I travel somewhere, I usually know someone. That works out. Will and I spent years trying to take off all the major routes in Black Velvet Canyon in Las Vegas. We climbed quite a bit out in Colorado on the Western Slopes and Front Range. I was in Seattle, climbing for my birthday and bouldering out in Leavenworth. I’ve had multiple ventures with multiple friends and I try to keep them. I try to keep my schedule pretty stacked with them, so I stay excited.
Tell the readers a little bit about HighPoint Expeditions, so that people may not know.
High Point Expeditions is a local guiding company based out of DFW, Dallas-Fort Worth. We are an educational company. We offer mainly two services. Clinics, teaching people how to do outdoor climbing and traditional climbing, placing cams, gears and knots. We do a sport climbing clinic, top roping clinic and multi-pitch clinic. The trad clinic is a two-day clinic and so is the multi-pitch. Both of those are done in the Wichita Wildlife Refuge out in a lot in Oklahoma.
In our local sport climbing clinics, you can have it done at Reimers Ranch in Austin or down at Mineral Wells State Park here. Our top rope clinics are done at the same time. We teach people the basic skills to help encourage them and get outside because that’s my passion. That was our passion for going at this. We offer days of climbing. If someone wants a guide to take them out for rock climbing and they want to have a great day, then we’re available.
Those are the two main services we do. We do a little bit of consulting on the side. We’re working with Mountain Time Expo, which is an expo that’s happening here in Dallas. We’re consulting with them on setting up their climbing or adventure side of the expo. We do little other things. I like to keep my options open. That’s how I am.
Through HighPoint Expeditions, do you organize a weeklong adventure thing?
No. We started off trying to do a lot of that in the beginning. If you’re familiar with the geography of Dallas, Texas, there is not much for mountains around. It’s a concrete jungle. Everyone is always like, “Why don’t you go to Hueco Tanks in El Paso?” I’m like, “You mean a nine-and-a-half-hour drive?” People don’t realize how big the state of Texas is.
We don’t do as much that as we used to. We do partner with other nonprofits like Escalando Fronteras or Move Mountains, which is based in Monterrey with a Mad Rock athlete named Tiffany Hensley. We do organize trips down to Monterrey. We’ll work with local guiding services and local organizations down there to organize multi-day trips for the sole purpose of raising money for their nonprofits to help their initiatives to help kids stay in school.
That’s as far as multi-day trips that we do. Outside of that, we sat down and thought about it. We realized like, “Our passion is more educating and encouraging people to go outside.” If someone wants us to do a trip, we won’t say no, but in the long run, we realized it wasn’t in the best interest of our company. We want to focus on just empowering people to be bold and get outside.
That’s smart and good because it’s a lot of energy and resources to put that together and then pull it off. When you get back, you still got to go back and do the day-to-day, but you’re whipped.
Don’t get me wrong. I love the concept of it, but I want to see the industry grow as a whole. I feel like what we’re doing is far more effective.
What was the catalyst behind starting HighPoint? How did you come up with that idea?
Many enthusiastic people get burned out just because they went hard right in the beginning. Take your time. Life is not a race.
My buddy Will Brock and I were driving back from Austin from a day of climbing. We were sitting there. We were like, “I wish we could rock-climb all the time. Why don’t we start a guiding company to fund our rock climbing adventures?” I’m sure that conversation has happened between two boneheaded rock climbers multiple times. We were like, “This is a great idea. Let’s do this. We’re going to rock-climb all the time.”
I think every outdoor industry business probably started that way between two guys, whether it’s, “Let’s make some apparel. Let’s start a footwear company.”
That was my real idea. We got into it and we were doing a lot of little local trips. We were going to Vegas a lot and climbing off of our income. We were doing some trips in Arkansas, Oklahoma, Alabama and Colorado. At some point in time, it turned from two dudes making some money rock climbing to two dudes having a legitimately booked schedule for 4 or 5 months out of work. It wasn’t like, “Work here, work there.”
I can’t tell you when, but that’s when Will and I decided to start traveling two separate paths with the company. He is in Colorado. He lives there now and works in adventure therapy. He is trying to get his license. There’s a license that you need to have in order to do adventure therapy and therapy in leadership out there.
We’re trying to get set up so he can work with local organizations and we can start offering adventure therapy to at-risk youth. I realized quickly I had to be the managing partner here on the ground. We still work and climb together quite often, but we realized this thing is getting bigger than just two dudes trying to rock-climb.
How many years have you been doing it?
My wife was talking to me about that. I told her it’s either 5 or 6, give or take one. Everyone always asks me, “How do you not know how long you’ve been in business?” I’m like, “It has been so fun. I don’t even think about it anymore.”
What were some of the challenges getting it going off the ground in the early days?
In all honesty, it was just running a business. I come from a long line of self-employed people. Being self-employed is not running a business. I had to make a strong distinction between those two. Just because you’re self-employed does not mean you run a business. It means you’re a businessman, but you don’t run a business.
You’re more of a free agent. If you’re just yourself, you just have to manage yourself and you don’t have to manage other people.
That was the biggest learning curve. Once I became a managing partner and the business kept on growing, I was bringing in other employees and training guys and people underneath me. Learning the day-to-day of the business was the challenging part for me. I have a lot of people in the climbing gym where my clients always ask me, “What do I need to train for to be able to do this rock climb? I want to go to Mount Whitney and climb a big climb.” I always tell people to train for the hike. The hike is the hardest part of any rock-climbing trip. It’s the one thing I hate more than anything else.
The climbing part is easy and the same thing applies to running a business. Running your business is easy. That’s the easiest part in the world. The hardest part was finding a pool of mentors to pull through. It’s the same philosophy I have for climbing partners. I have a pool of climbing partners that I’ll pull from. I have a pool of mentors that have been gracious and been giving me their phone number and be like, “Call me any time, any day if you have any questions.”
Who are some of those people? Is anybody related to the outdoor industry? Any retailer?
My buddy, Darren, who works at Polartec who introduced us, has been a big lifeline in answering some questions. A buddy of mine named Howard Tullman has nothing to do with the outdoor industry. He is a venture capitalist. He invested in different companies. I’ve found that not having all your mentors and people you pull from in the same industry has been a golden ticket for me.
I have a good client of mine. She is a wealth manager. She looks at things very differently. She gives me perspectives that, as a risk-taking rock climber, I would never think of. That has been the biggest thing that has made my company and almost broke me from not being willing or knowing when to ask for help and advice from people who have been doing things a lot longer.
Are these people board of directors? Do you meet formally with them or it’s like, “Call me when you have a question,” and they check in every once in a while?
I call them when I have a question. I try to have coffee with them on a regular basis. We’re friends. Mentors and friends go hand in hand. These are people that you have a genuine relationship with. There are different degrees of relationships, but there’s no board of directors. These are people that we’ve had a beer together, sipped on some whiskey around a campfire or climbed together in a gym. I’ve had to work up the nerve and be like, “I know we’re climbing, but I know this is your profession. Can I ask you a professional question?” A lot of times, 90% of people I’ve found want to help and answer a question and people who don’t, don’t. You respect those boundaries.
What have been some of your most enjoyable adventures over the years? If you want us to flip that around, we can talk about epic adventures.
Will and I were climbing in Las Vegas. We finished climbing out at Solar Slab. We were deciding like, “We want to do Levitation 29. It’s a super classical hill route. We’ll climb Solar Slab. We’ll do Johnny Vegas to Solar Slab, which is a 1,000-foot slab, and get to the top of it so we know where we’re going.” As we were hiking there, we were wondering if going up the gully is faster. We decided to take up the gully, which was the worst decision in the world. It’s always rock climb. It’s way better. We spent most of our day doing that.
On the way back, we were walking back. We got back to the parking lot and realized the car was gone. His car had gotten stolen. We were freaking out like, “Where’s the car? We parked it here.” We were totally wigging out. The park service came by. We ended up filing a report. It was a mess. We ended up chain-smoking a pack of carton cigarettes that week. I know this is probably something I shouldn’t say. We were so stressed. It was one of those times where we were like, “If you know something, forget it.”
It was the first time we were jumping down each other’s throats, but that experience honestly bonded us because we were like, “Will, we have an extra amount of capital, so let’s rent a minivan.” It was our second year of coming back trying to finish this route called Texas Hold’em, which is a gorgeous 11C. It’s probably one of the best routes in the park of Las Vegas, I would argue. It’s in Black Velvet Canyon. We ended up finishing that and then driving home. It was the most epic adventure absolutely ever. It was wild.
In those epics, they either cement the relationship or break it up.
Mentors are much like friends; they go hand in hand. These are people you have a genuine relationship with.
We realized that trip, “The house always wins in Vegas.”
Did you find the car and the gear?
They found it shot up with holes in it and slashed tires on the other side of the desert. When we found this car, we flew back to help guide that back. That’s funny when you say cementing a relationship. We started laughing hysterically, looking at the car, torn to shreds. We were like, “We could have done a way better job than that. Give us a machine gun. These guys who stole the car wrecked it like little pansies. This is horrible. There’s no spray paint. This is not acceptable.”
You mentioned you work with some nonprofits. Who are some of those people that you help out with?
I mentioned Escalando Fronteras, Move Mountains, which are based in Mexico. Those are organizations that offer educational tutoring, psychotherapy, counseling and keeping local, indigenous and Mexican kids in Monterrey off the streets by teaching them how to rock climb and giving them opportunities and access to larger rock climbing trips. That’s the one thing that HighPoint does directly.
My wife and I, Audra, started an event with a company called the BAWS Festival. It stands for Bad Ass Women in Sports. We host small little film festivals here in Dallas to raise money for the event and then we offer clinics. We offered a climbing clinic in 2021 with Tiffany and in 2020 with Hazel Findlay. We also offered a slacklining clinic with Heather Larsen. The whole goal is to grow the outdoor industry, but in showing that women have a place, women are badass and 9 times out of 10, women are better at certain things than men. I’ll openly admit that. I have no shame in there.
That is the nonprofit that we started. My wife is the President. I’m the VP of it. We run that with some awesome women and guys here in Dallas. The only other thing I do is I am the Cochairman of the North Texas Chapter of The American Alpine Club. I run that chapter from here. I have a great partner that I work with. He is a good friend of mine named Zack Ready. He runs a company here in Dallas. It’s a lot going on, but they all intertwine if you see the web that they work through.
How long has the BAWS Festival been going on?
We’re going on year three. We had our two festivals here. We’re working on having our third one in Miami. We’re partnering with a gym called Coral Cliffs. We’re going to be hosting it out there. We’re trying to have a winter festival in Colorado. I’m still negotiating the deals yet. I can’t say where it will be. Hopefully, if it happens, it will be somewhere else around Fort Collins.
Do you have any suggestions or advice for people either wanting to get into the biz, start or grow their career in the outdoor recreation biz? Rock climbing, work retail or whatever it might be. Any thoughts on that?
The biggest thing is to try it all out, first and foremost. Get a low-level job like working in REI or being an assistant guide in an office. Make sure you like it first. I’m going to go ahead and admit. I’m a rare bird. The harder I work at my guiding company, the more I am inspired to rock climb. For most people, it’s like working at a restaurant. The more you work at a restaurant, the more you don’t like the food that’s there. You don’t want to do it.
I find that some people get burned out. I’ve watched great climbers and enthusiastic people get into the business and get burned out because they went hard right in the beginning. My best advice is to try it out. Whatever you’re deciding, try it all out. Even the things that you’re like, “I would never be interested in working as a rep,” try it for a little bit. If it doesn’t work out for you, move on. After you find what you love, you will start finding people and things that will set you in motion to pursue your dream or whatever avenue you’re going for. Take your time. It’s not a race.
Generally, something is going to trip your trigger. You might get into climbing and meet somebody that wants to take you rafting, and it’s rafting that gets you excited, not climbing.
My wife’s buddy moved to Vegas to start rock climbing even more. Now, he is the most avid mountain biker I’ve ever met in my life. He doesn’t even rock-climb anymore. He has found his true calling. That’s what he calls it.
What other outdoor activities do you participate in other than climbing?
Realistically, it’s just rock climbing. I’m not going to lie there. I’m a great sit-around-by-the-campfire kind of guy and drink some whiskey. I got swinging in a hammock and got that sport down. If there’s not a rock at the end of the trail, I’m generally not very interested in doing it. All things rock climbing and mountaineering, I narrow my focus that way. I find it keeps the fire going alive for it. I do a lot of cross-training outside of that to stay fit and keep myself motivated too.
You stay fit through training. Do you have any other daily routines you use to keep your sanity? Do you meditate?
There’s an app I use. I’m not affiliated with these guys in any way, shape or form, but Headspace is a great app that I use. It has been a game-changer and a good sound of mind. I meditate and then I do a pretty standard routine. There is a Russian guy named Pavel. Simple & Sinister is the book and routine that I follow. I mix it up, but I’m a big fan of kettlebells and high-intensity training.
I write my own training programs. Also, on top of that, I run the adult’s training programs at all the gyms here in Texas. That’s a big thing that I do on the side. I have a sweet ritual. I train three days a week and take two days off as rest. Those are the things, meditate and general fitness. Staying on top of those two things keeps me ready for the outdoors.
You mentioned Simple & Sinister. Do you have any other favorite books? Do you give books as gifts very often?
All my climbing coaches, I have a little book club with them and I require them all to read some books. Simple & Sinister is definitely one. It’s a great book. With Winning In Mind is a great book. It’s probably one of the best coaching books I have ever read in my life. I would love to take credit that I discovered the book by myself, but I did not. The owner of our company, Kyle Clinkscales, recommended that I read the book. It was an utter game-changer in my coaching, perspective and how I look at coaching. It’s worth a read. I’ve read it three times. I try to read it once a year. It’s that good.
There’s another book called The Sweet Spot: How to Find Your Groove at Home and Work. That is the second book that I gift the most to people because I find that for a lot of us that want to do a lot, simplifying the rest of our life even more is fundamental. It was a single mom who wrote the book. She goes down to a lot of stuff I was already doing but explains how to streamline and simplify some daily things in your life so you can focus on the things that matter to you.
Do something bold and scary. It may be a bit difficult in the beginning but will seem easy later on.
There have been a lot of articles in Men’s Journal and other places about how some of these high-performing people have eliminated all the distractions out of the rest of their life, which allows them to perform at such a high level. It’s pretty interesting.
From this book, I wear the same uniform to work every day. It’s a series of shirts I wear. My wife and I cook in a crockpot. We know our training day meals are all coming out of a crockpot because it’s so simple to cook. We can cook large quantities of it. We can still do that. I have certain days that I make sure like, “This is the day that I fill up the gas tank in my car, but it’s also the day that I run certain errands.” I find something to do on that day. If I don’t have anything to do on that day, then I’ll meditate longer. Sticking to these little things and cutting out a lot of other stuff has made performing on a high level far easier.
I’m trying to do that. I do some of that stuff, but not all of it. It’s interesting to read about and learn what other people do too. Do you have a favorite piece of outdoor gear under $100?
There have been a couple of items. Each item is under $100. The first item, full disclosure, I’m a sponsored athlete by these guys. It’s Beyond Clothing based out of Seattle, Washington. These guys are awesome. They make A-1 base layer pullover and it’s just a quarter zip. I used to have one from another company a long time ago. It was a great piece of gear, but it was always a little too hot or I could never wear it all day or every day. Having a comfortable base layer, I would be willing to spend up to $100.
Your clothing gear is just as important as your quickdraws. I teach that in my clinic. People skimp on quality clothing all the time because they’re like, “I just want to get the really good gear.” I’m like, “Your clothing to your wear and the weather hazards that you have are probably far more dangerous than the actual climbing hazards that you’re going to do.” Having a great base layer that you can wear in warm, cold conditions and that access to a sun guard that does keep you warm has been a game-changer because being comfortable while you’re doing your activities is so important.
Another piece of equipment that’s my favorite thing since sliced bread is Belay Goggles. I love them. I don’t go climbing without them. They look like these little prisms that you wear in front of your eyes. They allow you to look forward and see up. The company that I like is called Y&Y Belay Goggles. You can buy them on Amazon. They’re around $50 to $60.
They have been a lifesaver, especially on long routes. When you’re hanging in a Belay, you’re not always trying to bend your head back, look, and hang around. You can just lean back a little bit and you can see them. Some of them magnify. You can still see a good portion of your partner while they’re 10 feet up from me. They still look like they’re fairly closely.
I haven’t climbed in years, but I remember back when I climbed, you sit there on the floorage of the crane in your neck and you ended up with a cricked neck all week.
Those days are gone. You should come back to rock climbing.
I’ve got other things keeping me from rock climbing, bad joints.
The last piece of equipment would be a pair of Belay Gloves. I never thought Belay Gloves were an important thing at all. I was gifted them by my wife and I was like, “I am an idiot.” This is best thing since sliced bread.
Belay Gloves is a great idea. I never heard of it. It shows how long I’ve been out of climbing. As we go to wrap here, is there anything else you would like to ask or say to our audience?
This is my charge to everybody. Do something bold and scary, whether it’s taking the dog for a walk, heading to a park, going on a bike ride or trying to climb in The Bugaboos. Whatever that is to you, do something outside. It will encourage and empower people to do bigger and better things because, once you do that, it seems small and then the next thing doesn’t seem so big. That’s what I would like to say to your audience because I know that’s how it was for me. I did something that seemed so monumental. After doing it, I was like, “That wasn’t that bad. Let’s go on a bigger wall.” It doesn’t always have to be rock climbing. It can be anything in life. Do something that’s a little scary and it will seem easy later on.
How can people reach out to you if they want to follow up? Is the email best or LinkedIn?
Email works great. My email is easy. It’s Mario@HighPointExpeditions.com. Feel free to email me with any questions. I also have Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Our Twitter account is @HPExpeditions. Our website is MarioStanley.com/highpoint-expeditions and then Instagram is @HighPointExpeditions. We’re easy to find. They can find me there and ask me anything.
Thanks for the time, Mario. It has been great catching up with you.
It has been great talking to you, Rick.
I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Mario Stanley. You can catch up with Mario by email at Mario@HighPointExpeditions.com. Be sure to hit your favorite podcast app and subscribe. Thanks for reading. This episode is brought to you by InMotion Hosting. I’ve used InMotion Hosting to host my websites for years. Rick Saez Photos blog, Stillwaters Consulting and The Outdoor Biz Podcast are all hosted with InMotion Hosting. If your New Year’s resolution is to publish a blog, produce a podcast or simply secure a domain name, go to TheOutdoorBizPodcast.com/InMotion and sign up with them. They make it simple and quick to get a new site up and running with easy installation tools.
- HighPoint Expeditions
- Summit Climbing Gym
- HighPoint Expeditions
- Mountain Time Expo
- Hueco Tanks
- Escalando Fronteras
- Tiffany Hensley
- Howard Tullman
- BAWS Festival – Twitter
- Hazel Findlay
- Heather Larsen – Instagram
- The American Alpine Club
- Coral Cliffs
- Simple & Sinister
- With Winning In Mind
- The Sweet Spot: How to Find Your Groove at Home and Work
- Beyond Clothing
- Belay Goggles
- Twitter – Mario Stanley
- Instagram – Mario Stanley
- Facebook – Mario Stanley
- @HPExpeditions – Twitter
- @HighPointExpeditions – Instagram
- Rick Saez Photos
- Adventure Therapy
- BAWS Festival
- Facebook – The Outdoor Biz Podcast
- Twitter – Rick Saez
- The Outdoor Biz Podcast – Instagram
- Patreon – Rick Saez
- The Outdoor Biz Podcast – Apple Podcasts